“That’s my stone, I’ll be able to say to my grandchildren”

Carol Hazel was never meant for “women’s work.”
As a stonecutter at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine, Carol said, “This is a good job for a woman. It’s not like being a secretary, scratching eyes out to get to the ‘Suite.’ I don’t have to sit behind a desk and worry about my bosses’ coffee or wife or getting hemorrhoids. I’m a stonecutter. I put on my jeans, boots and hard hat if I have to go up top. When I got this job, my mother and my grandmother said this was a man’s job. I said, ‘Pickin’ cotton was man’s work, too, only you have nothing to show for it.’ I made my mother see the light. And I do fine with the men. They respect me, I respect them. Come over at lunch and you’ll find us playing dominoes together.” Carol’s comments came from a 1987 issue of the Cathedral newsletter entitled “Me and Stone.”

The Bronx native came to the Cathedral through the Non-Traditional Employment for Women program, which continues to train women for jobs in the construction fields. “I wanted to paint the Brooklyn Bridge,” Carol thinks back, but in 1984 Frank Walcott, the Stoneyard manger, offered her a job as an apprentice stonecutter.
“The stone got me. It fascinated me the first time I saw it,” Carol continued in the newsletter article, “I saw the guys working there and thought, ‘I can do that.’ Frank Walcott and Alan Bird had confidence in me. And before I knew it, I’m sitting in front of this stone.
“It (the stone) comes from the sea, from layers and layers of sedimentary rock. It smells when you cut it from all the dead fish and everything that’s settled inside. It has the odor of ages coming to you from way back in time. And now I’m married to my stone. I talk to it. I pray over it. I say, it’s just you and me, stone.”
Carol lives in the same apartment in the University Heights section of the Bronx where I photographed her and her children, Pearl, John, “Peaches” and Kevin, almost 40 years ago for that article, and where we recently reconnected. Both times I had to lug my heavy camera gear up several flights of stairs of the five-floor walkup building. Carol spends some time in the Bronx but also shuttles between her apartment and family in North Carolina.
Seated in her living room, Carol talks about the “music” in the stone, “We (all) have our own style. I used to watch Eddie (Pizarro) and José (Tapia). I always loved the way José did his boasting pattern; if you listen to it, it’s like a beat; almost like a song. Each one had its own song, had its own rhythm. I always ‘heard’ boasting patterns — I didn’t just see them.” Carol remembers, “I could hear someone boasting and know who was doing it just by the rhythm of the beat. It would make beautiful music and you dance to the beat of the pattern.”

Although it’s been many years since she picked up a mallet and chisel, “If I attempted to do it now (boasting), my sound would change based off things that I’ve gone through.” There would be new and different sounds “based on our ages — but it would still play music.” She still has her mallet and a set of chisels in her living room should she want to test her theory.
In her years at the Stoneyard, Carol was a young working mother of four children. In the same Cathedral newsletter Carol wrote, “Born in New York, thirteen when I got pregnant with my first, sixteen with my second, nineteen with my third, twenty-one when I had the fourth—a baby raising babies, all by different fathers… And I’m raising my children well, lifting myself up, doing it without public assistance, all because I’m here in this church cutting stone.”
Carol managed her work and family responsibilities with a strict routine and help from her mother who lived nearby on the Grand Concourse in the Bronx. Carol would pick up the children after work from her mother’s apartment and sometimes, Carol says, they were latch-key kids. Her daughter Peaches “was the boss of the house” and made sure all her siblings stayed in line, Carol recalls. “You do what you do as a parent.”

Her oldest son, John Jones, sometimes gave her problems and “the remedy was to take him with me (to the Stoneyard),” Carol remembers.
John recently said, “I was explosive, very emotional when I was young. Going anywhere with just my mother calmed me down.” He was the only one of Carol’s children to regularly visit the Stoneyard. “I knew I was walking into something important. I was on my best behavior. I didn’t give her no problems,” he added. “She had a mission and I wasn’t going to act up. Mom figured out the ‘formula’ (with John).”
He recalls, Frank Walcott (the Stoneyard manager) “gave me a job on the first day.” Walcott would give John a few dollars for any odd jobs to keep him busy.
“If there was nothing to do, I would go through the Cathedral – every crevice.” John adds that the church was “so majestic.”
John became good friends with some of the Stoneyard crew. “Eddie Pizarro and José Tapia were all receptive to him being there,” according to Carol, adding that Frank Walcott was like a “father to us,” and Dean (James Parks) Morton “was very good to me” and took a special liking to John.
To Carol, the “Cathedral had a family feel – we were family, too. I loved the job, I loved the work, the people. She calls apprentice stonecutter Dwayne Crawford a “little brother.”

Because of her hard work and diligence, Carol was selected for a training program at City and Guilds of London Art School along with fellow apprentice Joseph Chifriller. The art school has a long and deep history of teaching architectural stone carving dating back over 130 years. According to Joe, he and Carol studied there from September 1987 to May 1988.

The Cathedral newsletter profile also made Carol a minor celebrity. The article was reprinted in an Aug. 1988 issue of Reader’s Digest magazine and also in the Non-Traditional Employment for Women newsletter. And the local news media frequently interviewed the family, according to John.
In 1988 Carol felt it was time to move on. She wanted a few more construction-related jobs under her belt, and she had a desire to start a women’s painting company. She worked as a laborer for Tishman Local 59 and still considers herself a role model for women in construction.
She became part of Harlem Fight Back, a local community-based organization aimed at getting construction jobs for Blacks, Spanish-surnamed, and other minorities in New York City. Carol also took on the role of arranging “shaping” at construction sites.
As Carol explains, “shaping” is an organized group of workers visiting construction sites in search of work. Years prior, Carol and a group from the Non-Traditional Employment for Women program “shaped” the Cathedral Stoneyard which led to Carol eventually landing a job there.
After a few years Carol changed direction and decided to go back to school. “One door closes, another door opens,” she relates about attending Mercy College in Westchester for an associate’s degree with an emphasis on alcohol and substance abuse, and a Bachelor’s of Science degree in Behavioral Science. Carol says that certain aspects of her degrees were “practical — just like stone.”
Carol later worked with special education children at the Young Adult Institute, now YAI, an organization serving people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. Her last job before retirement in 2011 was at the Nelson Avenue Shelter, where Carol was a Youth Enrichment Coordinator.
Over 20 years after she put down her tools and left the Cathedral, Carol was an inspiration for a children’s book, Me and Momma and Big John, by Mara Rockliff and published in 2012 by Candlewick Press with illustrations by William Low.

Author Mara Rockliff explains, “I first got in touch with Carol 20 years ago, after I read about her in a book about New York. I’d been interested in the Cathedral and the stonecutters ever since I went there on a sixth-grade field trip, and I thought it would be fun to write a story from the point of view of a child whose mother was helping to finish building the Cathedral. Carol and I talked on the phone once or twice, and she shared some wonderful details (the sounds of the tools, the smell of the stone) that ended up in the book.”

Carol and her sometimes “problem” son, John, are the main characters. The book relates John’s visit to the Stoneyard to see a stone his mother has been working on and wants to show him. The rich illustrations show the young boy stepping into the busy Stoneyard and initially being confused and disappointed that his mother’s painstaking work on a single stone isn’t visibly marked.
According to John, the book did convey his feelings as a boy watching his mother’s work. “With my young eyes, I didn’t understand the process,” he says. His mother’s stone “looks like the others – how will people know it’s her art?” he thought. “I remember the piece my mother made, the work she put into it to get those dimensions.”

While John feels the book embellished and perhaps idealized his mother’s work, he says, “I love the way they broke it down.” In John’s view, the book caught the essence of Carol and her family.
In the book, and now to the adult John, the young son eventually understands the pride in contributing to something larger than himself and his mother’s single stone. John realized that the Cathedral’s magnificence lay in all the pieces coming together as one great whole.
The book won a Golden Kite Award from the Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators.
For her recent birthday Carol had a multi-generational Zoom with her four children, 12 grandchildren and one great-grandchild. They played an online version of Deal or No Deal and Carol, no surprise, was a big jackpot winner.

“I feel proud of where I am and where my children are and my grandchildren,” said Carol. “The Cathedral is part of my legacy. As long as there’s a stone up there with my number, my boasting pattern and my name on it, then that is part of my legacy.”

■
- Cathedral Newsletter Vol 2 Number 3 June 1987
- Me and Momma and Big John – Divine Stone





















































